Curse

Tijger · Feb 12, 2006, 09:02 AM // 09:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konrow

ah the good old days. if only people weren't so power-hungry, greedy, and easily bored the game would still be as great as it was when it first came out and i wa splaying and having fun with people it groups of 8 poeple trying to complete missions and win the game (thats right newbs! there used to groups of more than 4 people who actually tried to beat the missions and had fun doing it!)

Ow, I must be doing something wrong then, I still play missions with 8 people and having fun doing it.

Anyway, how can the activities of others spoil a gaming experience for you? Who cares if and how people farm? Someone wants to solo Perdition Rock? Good for them, doesnt matter one iota to me.

Ultimate_Gaara · Feb 12, 2006, 09:21 AM // 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurow

Its because of people farming places that the drops are so bad.

Don't blame me, Im anti-farming.

Unlike most people I still have my innocence, I have never farmed, I have never used an exploit for my advantage, I do not rip off other builds, I do not steal drops, I have never scammed anyone... Well you get the point.

Avarre · Feb 12, 2006, 09:42 AM // 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasher Dragon

Whatever your intent with the item, you went down there not to do missions or gain XP, but to kill monsters until you found an item. That is farming.

Really? That must mean I never farm... I go to FoW for the XP and hell of it, and I do UW runs with a friend to practice our teamwork and for the quests, don't really care whether we get drops or not.

The 'problem' is the attitude of certain players. For those that don't have a poor attitude, like the complainers in this thread, there is no problem.

I've been doing 2 man UW with a friend for months, and I still have as much fun playing with them as I did when I got the game, if not more due to our synergy of teamwork.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konrow

thats right newbs! there used to groups of more than 4 people who actually tried to beat the missions and had fun doing it!

I will bet you any item in my account that you can't do some of the reduced group trips that me and my 'newb' friends do, while still having fun. Guess that makes you the newb of newbs.

Desbreko · Feb 12, 2006, 10:29 AM // 10:29

The way I see it, if ArenaNet didn't want people to farm, they wouldn't have made FoW armor cost a million+ gold. Because, outside of farming, there is simply no realistic way of attaining it. Logic, then, would tell us that farming is an intentional part of the game for those who choose to do it. And if ArenaNet doesn't take steps to stop such-and-such build from being used, you have to wonder if they have anything against it to begin with.

Personally, I think it's a bit silly that it's possible to solo end game areas like the FoW, but I don't have anything against people who do it. They found a build that works and are good enough to play it correctly, so good for them. If there's a problem, I think it's more with the level design (as in, why isn't a group level 28 baddies powerful enough to kill a single level 20 player?) than with skill exploitation.

But with that out of the way, I have to agree, there really isn't anything else like starting up a new game and exploring a new world. After your first character, that magical feeling is gone. Then you have to turn to other ways of finding entertainment within the game or stop playing. Myself, I got a lot of fun out of playing through the game (or at least most of the game) with each of the professions. But I also enjoy working towards a goal, such as farming to get FoW armor.

So here's looking forward to Factions. I plan on start a new character (the Assassin looks like fun) and keeping her isolated from my chapter 1 characters until she's beaten the chapter 2 compaign. No trading of gold, no trading of items, nothing -- she'll be on her own, using the best of the weapons I pick up as drops and scrounging money for armor just like my first chapter 1 character. Having four high level characters is fun, but I also miss being a newbie.

Numa Pompilius · Feb 12, 2006, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustache Mayhem

I can't agree with the op.. hate to say this but the pve game is easy and has always been about skills=money- trading/soloing are just ways to get the fow armor and rares fast and legit.. what are your goals in a game like this? if you set a goal and complete it- that's satisfying.. who cares about the rest really- it's why I never understood roleplaying and people who hang out and complain- they should quit if it's not fun anymore

Yeah. That's exactly the attitude the OP is complaining about.

You see, he doesn't see this as a race to the finish line, for you getting there first, or with the most money, or the most expensive green items, or four full sets of FoW armor, or whatever, is what's fun. You're a competitive player, he, and I, aren't. E.g. I find exploring the world and overcoming challenges fun, and don't care at all about how much money I've got. But that's getting harder and harder as the game is settling into nothing but rigid farming with cookie-cutter builds.

That this thread has come to be about soloing and/or farming is unfortunate, because it's not really about that. It's about why one plays the game.

Avarre · Feb 12, 2006, 11:55 AM // 11:55

If you don't care about money, and you don't care about drops, why do you care about what other people are doing with what builds?

There is no lack of totally random PuG groups to FoW / UW, and you can explore with like-minded friends or henchmen. I've always played a game because I enjoy it, and if i don't, i quit.

Most others have their certain playstyle because they enjoy it too. The only attitude I'm growing to dislike besides the rampant flaming jerks (who actually are quite amusing nowadays) is those of yours, complaining on the 'ethics' of the game.

If you think the game requires a 'rigid farming build' then how is it I get into PuGs with my mesmer? I'm fairly sure my dom/illu build isn't a farming setup, and it most certainly isn't rigid because I change it constantly to suit how I want to play it.

This thread is baseless, and all I see it as is self-absorbed whinging. Flame off.

Numa Pompilius · Feb 12, 2006, 12:11 PM // 12:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

If you don't care about money, and you don't care about drops, why do you care about what other people are doing with what builds?

I don't. Like I said, this isn't an anti-farming rant, hell I sometimes farm myself, it's simply lamenting the early days when _everyone_ were teaming and exploring. Like I said in a previous post, the best one can do is avoid transferring ones own jadedness on newbies.

Quote:

There is no lack of totally random PuG groups to FoW / UW, and you can explore with like-minded friends or henchmen.

Actually it's very hard to find a PuG for exploration in FoW/UW, and as a result I *do* play with like-minded friends & henchmen.

Quote:

Most others have their certain playstyle because they enjoy it too. The only attitude I'm growing to dislike besides the rampant flaming jerks (who actually are quite amusing nowadays) is those of yours, complaining on the 'ethics' of the game.

Hm. Where have I been complaining about the ethics of the game?

Quote:

If you think the game requires a 'rigid farming build' then how is it I get into PuGs with my mesmer?

Go to Sorrows Furnace, or to UW/FoW, and you'll find it's infinitely easier to find a PuG if you're a bonder, a stance/geartank, a MM or SS necro, a healer. That's because those are part of the rigid flavor-of-the-month cookie-cutter farming build.

Quote:

This thread is baseless, and all I see it as is self-absorbed whinging. Flame off.

Yeah, this is absolutely true. It is nothing more than whinging about the good old days before optimal gaming tactics were discovered.

Avarre · Feb 12, 2006, 12:25 PM // 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

I don't. Like I said, this isn't an anti-farming rant, hell I sometimes farm myself, it's simply lamenting the early days when _everyone_ were teaming and exploring. Like I said in a previous post, the best one can do is avoid transferring ones own jadedness on newbies.

Of course there will be some difference in game experience, as the population grows in experience on average there will be a change. Playing with casual PvE friends and guildies can keep the situation you prefer intact however. I spent a while doing Abbadon's and Hell's with a bunch of PvE guildies earlier, was great fun and we all brought whatever skills we wanted.

Quote:

Actually it's very hard to find a PuG for exploration in FoW/UW, and as a result I *do* play with like-minded friends & henchmen.

If mesmers can find a group for FoW/UW, then the other classes can

The only problems I have is too few groups that go beyond smites and too few that go beyond forge, but usually any group that stops there isn't strong enough to survive much further. I've dragged several groups to the burning forest in FoW if we work well together, usually involving antics of insanity as we are slaughtered (PuGs ftw!)

Quote:

Hm. Where have I been complaining about the ethics of the game?

Ethics wasn't the best word to use. What I meant was the attitudes of how some people prefer to farm and rush around, not exploring, compared to those who prefer to do everything, such as the OP.

Quote:

Go to Sorrows Furnace, or to UW/FoW, and you'll find it's infinitely easier to find a PuG if you're a bonder, a stance/geartank, a MM or SS necro, a healer. That's because those are part of the rigid flavor-of-the-month cookie-cutter farming build.

I avoid SF with regards to PuGs entirely, because I am, and always have been, a mesmer player (I play necro for 2man uw / 3man fow trips with guildies, all other times I stay on mes). I still manage to go to FoW quite often, and if you think Mesmers are a flavor of the month build, then meh.

Quote:

Yeah, this is absolutely true. It is nothing more than whinging about the good old days before optimal gaming tactics were discovered.

I think I missed the part where using optimal tactics and maximizing your character's capabilities with builds meant you couldn't have fun.

Numa Pompilius · Feb 12, 2006, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Of course there will be some difference in game experience, as the population grows in experience on average there will be a change.

Yes of course. Again, AFAI can tell all the OP's post was, was a lament that this was unavoidable.

Quote:

If mesmers can find a group for FoW/UW, then the other classes can

Not my experience, but I can't stand spamming "LFG" for too long either.

Quote:

Ethics wasn't the best word to use. What I meant was the attitudes of how some people prefer to farm and rush around, not exploring, compared to those who prefer to do everything, such as the OP.

Possibly the word you're looking for is 'elitism', because I suspect that's what I'm guilty of when I feel that exploring & doing everything, and taking perhaps two months to finish the PvE campaign, is a better way to play than burning through the PvE in a week, most of it carried by high-level players, and then farming, farming, farming, farming... and complaining about how boring the PvE is.

Quote:

I think I missed the part where using optimal tactics and maximizing your character's capabilities with builds meant you couldn't have fun.

It doesn't. That the game is settling into rigid optimal builds DOES however limit your choices of playing style and build, unless you play with like-minded or henches.

Avarre · Feb 12, 2006, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Not my experience, but I can't stand spamming "LFG" for too long either.

I don't spam LFG, I wait till I see a group LFM and join them

Quote:

Possibly the word you're looking for is 'elitism', because I suspect that's what I'm guilty of when I feel that exploring & doing everything, and taking perhaps two months to finish the PvE campaign, is a better way to play than burning through the PvE in a week, most of it carried by high-level players, and then farming, farming, farming, farming... and complaining about how boring the PvE is.

Perhaps. I finished the PvE on mesmer without running, and am working on finishing all the bonuses. I've never felt remotely concerned about cookie-cutterness, perhaps because I play a mesmer and there is nothing cookiecutter about PvE messing.

Quote:

It doesn't. That the game is settling into rigid optimal builds DOES however limit your choices of playing style and build, unless you play with like-minded or henches.

Play a Mes, or a demibuild. A SS necro only needs SS to be considered as thus, that gives you 6 slots (with a res) to do whatever you like with. (And no, full group SS necros don't need echo, its a waste). The problem is more that people are less willing to devise their own builds now that so many that clearly work are available.

Ganks · Feb 12, 2006, 01:13 PM // 13:13

I farm when I need something, like a certain green, for my PvP chars.

This is "Guild" "Wars" afterall...

Kai Nui · Feb 12, 2006, 09:37 PM // 21:37

FOTM. IWAY. That's what I'd at least have to say. The use of builds that aren't their own just to win rank. Now it's pointless.

Caoimhe · Feb 12, 2006, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

...As for me, I'll play factions solo or with guildmates, just like I have the first chapter, and it'll hopefully take me many months to reach the level of boredom and jadedness the beta players and the uberly competitive will achieve the first week.

Quoted for truth, sadly. Why is it that so many games anymore are people trying to prove how "leet" they are and how "nub, n00b, noob, etc." everyone else is? What ever happened to play for the sake of entertainment? I've enjoyed the Prophecies campaign, as tedious as some of it was (THK, anyone?) and am looking forward to the time I'll spend in Cantha. Nothing wrong with taking your time and enjoying the scenery; nothing wrong with being run and skipping half the tale. IMO, what a shame that the latter choose to miss out on a lot of neat stuff.

::goes back to lurking::

Kai Nui · Feb 12, 2006, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desbreko

But with that out of the way, I have to agree, there really isn't anything else like starting up a new game and exploring a new world. After your first character, that magical feeling is gone. Then you have to turn to other ways of finding entertainment within the game or stop playing. Myself, I got a lot of fun out of playing through the game (or at least most of the game) with each of the professions. But I also enjoy working towards a goal, such as farming to get FoW armor.

So here's looking forward to Factions. I plan on start a new character (the Assassin looks like fun) and keeping her isolated from my chapter 1 characters until she's beaten the chapter 2 compaign. No trading of gold, no trading of items, nothing -- she'll be on her own, using the best of the weapons I pick up as drops and scrounging money for armor just like my first chapter 1 character. Having four high level characters is fun, but I also miss being a newbie.

Exactly why people are going to fill up the area as A/Rt and Rt/A. At least I know that will be the case for me. I don't want to use old classes and old crap for this entirely new adventure with an entirely new character. Sadly, there will be like 2 variations of characters, but oh well, I still think I'll enjoy it as an individual gamer just trying to have fun.

Grimm · Feb 12, 2006, 10:22 PM // 22:22

[QUOTE=Desbreko]The way I see it, if ArenaNet didn't want people to farm, they wouldn't have made FoW armor cost a million+ gold. Because, outside of farming, there is simply no realistic way of attaining it. Logic, then, would tell us that farming is an intentional part of the game for those who choose to do it. And if ArenaNet doesn't take steps to stop such-and-such build from being used, you have to wonder if they have anything against it to begin with.
/QUOTE]

You don't *need* Fissure Armor! It's there so the mindless farmers have something to buy. Everything you *need* is easily and cheaply attainable. This is because ArenaNet designed a game were you don't need to farm for money or items to be just (or nearly) as powerful as those who do.

Markaedw · Feb 12, 2006, 10:39 PM // 22:39

good diety, not another antiFoW rant, just because you don't want to work for.....

Kurow · Feb 12, 2006, 10:40 PM // 22:40

I figure in factions Ill choose a class that i havent played yet really mixed with assassin or ritualist, so that way Im still starting something new. Like a N/A or Me/Rt.

SilentAssassin · Feb 12, 2006, 10:40 PM // 22:40

it isn't an anti-fow rant, read topic pls

Halfthought · Feb 13, 2006, 01:58 AM // 01:58

There a certain innocence in being n00b
(referring to me)

Desbreko · Feb 13, 2006, 08:04 AM // 08:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

Exactly why people are going to fill up the area as A/Rt and Rt/A. At least I know that will be the case for me. I don't want to use old classes and old crap for this entirely new adventure with an entirely new character. Sadly, there will be like 2 variations of characters, but oh well, I still think I'll enjoy it as an individual gamer just trying to have fun.

I've thought about this too. Hopefully, though, Factions will attract enough new players to fill in the other professions. Or, if not, I guess there's always henchies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grimm

You don't *need* Fissure Armor! It's there so the mindless farmers have something to buy. Everything you *need* is easily and cheaply attainable. This is because ArenaNet designed a game were you don't need to farm for money or items to be just (or nearly) as powerful as those who do.

Where exactly did I say that you need FoW armor? Certainly nowhere in the paragraph you quoted. I think you missed my point.

What I was saying was that ArenaNet put FoW armor in the game. And since they put it in, they obviously meant for people to buy it. After all, what would be the point of putting something in the game if people weren't meant to be able to get it? It would be a waste of development resources. So obviously ArenaNet meant for people to be able attain FoW armor; they don't need it, but it's there for people to get if they want it.

Now, with that fact established, think about the price of FoW armor: a million gold or more. But just playing through all the missions -- even playing through all the missions four times, once on each of your character slots -- isn't going to get you a million gold. How, then, does ArenaNet expect anyone to ever get enough gold to buy FoW armor? Well, if playing through the storyline doesn't do it, there's only one other option. And that is farming.

So, as I said before, logic tells us that ArenaNet expects people to farm if they want to buy FoW armor. If they didn't, they would have either lowered the price of FoW armor, or increased drop rates, so that you could amass the necessary gold just from playing through the game. But they didn't do either, and thus we can conclude that ArenaNet considers farming a valid part of the game.